No, not a political reference but in relation to my blog roll on the right. I have copied a load more that were missing from Waterlily so if I have missed you off let me know. More for my vicarious cruising benefit than anything else.
Nev
Wednesday, 30 January 2013
Monday, 28 January 2013
Always more to learn - charge controllers
My last post about my endeavours received a helpful comment from Brian off NB Harnser
My observation was about voltage of the two respective battery banks as reported via the newly installed Smartgauge. The voltages were lower under charge than on Waterlily and were lower than the output reported via my multimeter off the back of the alternator.
What I forgot was that on Waterlily there is an Adverc charge controller fitted. Plus as Brian pointed out Percy would/should have a split charging controller and suggested it may be a simple diode type. From follow up reading and as Brian suggested the diode type install does consume voltage. This would explain why more was showing on the back of the alternator than was showing into the batteries. (I am still assuming that if the alternator was giving out 14.5volts then under charge the batteries would show 14.5 volts rather than their current charge state?
So it appears at this part of my learning Percy is simple (I knew that) but never considered the electrics as I had rather stupidly assumed that they were similar to Waterlily.... Alternator charges the battery bank. I forgot the charge controller/relay/diode install on both boats.
Rightly or wrongly this is how I do my learning. I could just take it into the Streethay or Mercia and say.... fit me a Smartgauge, but where would be the fun in that.
Thanks Brian for your advice (I will add you to my blog roll, not sure how I missed you off) I will hopefully get to Percy this week and have a good look at the charge controller as to date I had paid it no attention.
Question is now I know I may have an inefficient charge controller do I look to add a Smartbank or Adverc controller? I recall on two separate occasions RCR engineers advised to disconnect the Adverc unit as it 'overworked' the alternator. Sometimes you could detect the changes to the loads the unit was applying by the alternator working harder and the engine note changing...
Problem is now I know that there is in effect a loss of charging current meaning my charging is less efficient. I feel for now I need to understand the relationship between demand and supply on the batteries, I can only really do this over a period of time being on the boat.....;-)
My observation was about voltage of the two respective battery banks as reported via the newly installed Smartgauge. The voltages were lower under charge than on Waterlily and were lower than the output reported via my multimeter off the back of the alternator.
What I forgot was that on Waterlily there is an Adverc charge controller fitted. Plus as Brian pointed out Percy would/should have a split charging controller and suggested it may be a simple diode type. From follow up reading and as Brian suggested the diode type install does consume voltage. This would explain why more was showing on the back of the alternator than was showing into the batteries. (I am still assuming that if the alternator was giving out 14.5volts then under charge the batteries would show 14.5 volts rather than their current charge state?
So it appears at this part of my learning Percy is simple (I knew that) but never considered the electrics as I had rather stupidly assumed that they were similar to Waterlily.... Alternator charges the battery bank. I forgot the charge controller/relay/diode install on both boats.
Rightly or wrongly this is how I do my learning. I could just take it into the Streethay or Mercia and say.... fit me a Smartgauge, but where would be the fun in that.
Thanks Brian for your advice (I will add you to my blog roll, not sure how I missed you off) I will hopefully get to Percy this week and have a good look at the charge controller as to date I had paid it no attention.
Question is now I know I may have an inefficient charge controller do I look to add a Smartbank or Adverc controller? I recall on two separate occasions RCR engineers advised to disconnect the Adverc unit as it 'overworked' the alternator. Sometimes you could detect the changes to the loads the unit was applying by the alternator working harder and the engine note changing...
Problem is now I know that there is in effect a loss of charging current meaning my charging is less efficient. I feel for now I need to understand the relationship between demand and supply on the batteries, I can only really do this over a period of time being on the boat.....;-)
Friday, 25 January 2013
Many pictures of my endeavour
My efforts in the engine room are for now complete. I have fitted the engine hours counter, fitted the solar controller and fitted the Smartgauge.
As I have blogged about before, the engine room in Percy uses copper pipe as a conduit for the cable runs, this matches the copper for the engine plumbing plus other shiny bits.
So any install I do demands to be in some sympathy with what goes before....
When I took the solar panel & controller off Waterlily I put them onto Percy via a bit of a lash up just to keep the batteries getting some juice.
Here are a few pics of the 'initial install'
A little bit of copper, a few 3.5 mm holes drilled and some 'tapping' done it looks a lot tidier....
I put the cables that come from the MTTP controller into copper to get them back to the batteries, drilled and tapped onto the engine frame.
The hours counter was not essential but having brought one off Ebay for a fiver from the states it was worth doing. I wanted to find a metal box to match in with the fabricated one for the volt meter and charging light but I made do with a Maplins black plastic... easier to cut out the 2 inch hole. Good for oil changes and diesel consumption checking.
The final extra fitting was the Smartgauge.... some love them some think they are an over expensive volt meter. I would not do without so fitted one as I did on Waterlily. Same again with the black Maplins box....
I ran the engine to check the charge rate which was a little disappointing.... I must refresh my memory on what I was getting on Waterlily. It was over 14v on the back of the alternator but only getting 13.5 regardless of RPM on the smartgauge. I am sure on Waterlily the smartgauge showed over 14v . I may have blogged about it so something to check. It may be the batteries are still a little low, or the smartgauge needs a few more charging/discharge cycles to feel at home, a good reason to spend some time aboard.
I need to turn my attention to the engine next. Plenty to get to know and more to blog about.... including the manly manual.... you ladies... keep off, the manual says so !
As I have blogged about before, the engine room in Percy uses copper pipe as a conduit for the cable runs, this matches the copper for the engine plumbing plus other shiny bits.
So any install I do demands to be in some sympathy with what goes before....
When I took the solar panel & controller off Waterlily I put them onto Percy via a bit of a lash up just to keep the batteries getting some juice.
Here are a few pics of the 'initial install'
A little bit of copper, a few 3.5 mm holes drilled and some 'tapping' done it looks a lot tidier....
The 'wire' left is in fact the temp sender to a gauge on the pigeon box.
I have found the drilling and tapping of the threads quite therapeutic,
I even went home smelling like an engineer !
I put the cables that come from the MTTP controller into copper to get them back to the batteries, drilled and tapped onto the engine frame.
The hours counter was not essential but having brought one off Ebay for a fiver from the states it was worth doing. I wanted to find a metal box to match in with the fabricated one for the volt meter and charging light but I made do with a Maplins black plastic... easier to cut out the 2 inch hole. Good for oil changes and diesel consumption checking.
The final extra fitting was the Smartgauge.... some love them some think they are an over expensive volt meter. I would not do without so fitted one as I did on Waterlily. Same again with the black Maplins box....
I ran the engine to check the charge rate which was a little disappointing.... I must refresh my memory on what I was getting on Waterlily. It was over 14v on the back of the alternator but only getting 13.5 regardless of RPM on the smartgauge. I am sure on Waterlily the smartgauge showed over 14v . I may have blogged about it so something to check. It may be the batteries are still a little low, or the smartgauge needs a few more charging/discharge cycles to feel at home, a good reason to spend some time aboard.
I need to turn my attention to the engine next. Plenty to get to know and more to blog about.... including the manly manual.... you ladies... keep off, the manual says so !
Thursday, 24 January 2013
Less is more - batteries ?
I am trying to get my head around batteries.... we have two 110a/h on Percy and Waterlily has three x x110a/h, both plus starters.
Now I know with three you will get longer power supply, simple really, but you would then have to charge up three batteries instead of two. So whilst my smartgauge will drop to say 90% on Waterlily after an evening aboard maybe Percy's Smartgauge will drop to 80%. it used to take an hour to put 10% back into Waterlily's battery bank so it will be interesting to see what it takes to put the same 10% back into the two on Percy.
Now as I understand it batteries die based on their discharge/recharge cycles. So is it the case that taking a battery to 80% then recharging is worse that 90 % and recharging? If it is marginal then surely it is better to have less batteries as they will be cheaper to replace when the time comes.
Also I suppose there is less risk with fewer batteries of one dropping a cell and causing the others to work so much harder without the owner knowing?
I have been following a post on Canal World about smartgauges... normal pin balling around with a few insults in there but in the main an interesting thread. I think the Smartgauge is a little smoke and mirrors device, simple at what it does but reliable and users like me get drawn to its % comfort. There are other ways, many will just use instinct/experience to know how much to run the engine, others use multimeter's to alert them to 12.2 volts (is that the magic figure for the time a battery bank needs recharging?) Anyhow I like the reassurance, having been without power is not a good experience and the thought of destroying a battery bank because you are not aware of its low voltage state or a dead cell within the bank is not comforting.
I'd be very interested in what you use to monitor your power?
Nev
Now I know with three you will get longer power supply, simple really, but you would then have to charge up three batteries instead of two. So whilst my smartgauge will drop to say 90% on Waterlily after an evening aboard maybe Percy's Smartgauge will drop to 80%. it used to take an hour to put 10% back into Waterlily's battery bank so it will be interesting to see what it takes to put the same 10% back into the two on Percy.
Now as I understand it batteries die based on their discharge/recharge cycles. So is it the case that taking a battery to 80% then recharging is worse that 90 % and recharging? If it is marginal then surely it is better to have less batteries as they will be cheaper to replace when the time comes.
Also I suppose there is less risk with fewer batteries of one dropping a cell and causing the others to work so much harder without the owner knowing?
I have been following a post on Canal World about smartgauges... normal pin balling around with a few insults in there but in the main an interesting thread. I think the Smartgauge is a little smoke and mirrors device, simple at what it does but reliable and users like me get drawn to its % comfort. There are other ways, many will just use instinct/experience to know how much to run the engine, others use multimeter's to alert them to 12.2 volts (is that the magic figure for the time a battery bank needs recharging?) Anyhow I like the reassurance, having been without power is not a good experience and the thought of destroying a battery bank because you are not aware of its low voltage state or a dead cell within the bank is not comforting.
I'd be very interested in what you use to monitor your power?
Nev
Wednesday, 23 January 2013
Almost feel guilty...
The Smartgauge is installed. I really don't think you can do without one of these once you have had one. I am lost on the battery charging front without one. It was good to visit Waterlily recently and be able to check on the state of charge of her batteries (97%) It is more important on Percy for two reasons
Why do I feel guilty.... well it is tech in a very basic but well engineered install. I am sure Tony would not approve but we tend to use our boats as a floating retreat as we both work full time so don't get the chance to cruise the system yet. So how the batteries are is quite critical to us.
The install is in 15mm copper tubing to keep it looking the same as other electrical installs in this space. Next job is to complete the solar panel install into copper and hard fix the controller - more drilling and tapping the steel bulkheads...!!
- Percy only has 2 batteries
- We only need to run the engine for battery charging now - not for hot water as was the case on Waterlily
Why do I feel guilty.... well it is tech in a very basic but well engineered install. I am sure Tony would not approve but we tend to use our boats as a floating retreat as we both work full time so don't get the chance to cruise the system yet. So how the batteries are is quite critical to us.
The install is in 15mm copper tubing to keep it looking the same as other electrical installs in this space. Next job is to complete the solar panel install into copper and hard fix the controller - more drilling and tapping the steel bulkheads...!!
Saturday, 19 January 2013
One step forward two back
Another couple of long hard days at work as we had our two days of awards ceremonies. Made a lot harder this year by biting cold and lots of snow.
My guys did a great job. Only downside of the days was getting a call from Great Haywood telling me my buyers had had to pull out as one of them has had a health issue... no more detail, just hope they are ok.
Anyhow that puts Waterlily back on the market.
She will sell as she is a great boat in excellent order
Nev
My guys did a great job. Only downside of the days was getting a call from Great Haywood telling me my buyers had had to pull out as one of them has had a health issue... no more detail, just hope they are ok.
Anyhow that puts Waterlily back on the market.
She will sell as she is a great boat in excellent order
Nev
Tuesday, 15 January 2013
CaRT doing their job... well maybe
Got a call from CaRT on my answerphone at home yesterday. I rang back today and after a little bit of answerphone chess, I spoke to a nice lady who advised me Percy was without licence and as I was the owner what was I going to do about it.
Good they picked this up, I do not like license evasion, however the fact I had sent off the transfer forms for ownership in ignorance of the fact this did not start the license application process was a questionable failing. I suppose it is my error that I was not aware I had to apply for a new license as well as send off the ownership forms. The boat does carry a license till the end of January but it is a trade license, I thought I could use that until the ownership transfer went through.
I am a little peeved as I have another boat stuck in a marina not being used, I can hardly use both boats at the same time... or rather I would not use both boats at the same time. Anyhow she is sending me the paperwork to now apply for the license.
I am also in the process of transferring my mooring over.... and CaRT have offered for me to pay the difference pro rata to keep the renewal at the same month, which is good otherwise I'd be having to pay out for both license and mooring just before Christmas.
So quite soon I will be much lighter in the pocket again for license and extra mooring, still a bit peeved I cannot cash in my old license, still the new owners will get a grace period and a little more value from Waterlily.
Now about those engine room jobs....
Good they picked this up, I do not like license evasion, however the fact I had sent off the transfer forms for ownership in ignorance of the fact this did not start the license application process was a questionable failing. I suppose it is my error that I was not aware I had to apply for a new license as well as send off the ownership forms. The boat does carry a license till the end of January but it is a trade license, I thought I could use that until the ownership transfer went through.
I am a little peeved as I have another boat stuck in a marina not being used, I can hardly use both boats at the same time... or rather I would not use both boats at the same time. Anyhow she is sending me the paperwork to now apply for the license.
I am also in the process of transferring my mooring over.... and CaRT have offered for me to pay the difference pro rata to keep the renewal at the same month, which is good otherwise I'd be having to pay out for both license and mooring just before Christmas.
So quite soon I will be much lighter in the pocket again for license and extra mooring, still a bit peeved I cannot cash in my old license, still the new owners will get a grace period and a little more value from Waterlily.
Now about those engine room jobs....
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